10/21/2019 CSCI 561 (139 unread)
question
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Judgement for spoiling agents
As said in http://www.cyningstan.com/post/922/unspoiling-halm, the modification of rules still cannot prevent spoiling players to build a fortress that never loses. We assume the black side is controlled by a spoiling player. It only takes five step to build a fortress like below:
Now it can keep shifting between last two states, and the move does not violate any rules. By this way, the black side will never lose since the whit piece cannot jump beyond two other pieces. On the other hand, ¡°it takes almost no time for this agent to give its next move. Since the master agent avoids draw by comparing the decision time left, then the black side will definitely has more remaining time and thus win.
This logic of this agent totally goes away from what we are expect to apply, and thus I hope there is a punishment for this kind of behavior.
~ An instructor (Daniel Link) thinks this is a good question ~
Updated 24 days ago by Anonymous
the students’ answer, where students collectively construct a single answer
This is really interesting and hilarious. Thank you for sharing!
Updated 24 days ago by Jonathan
the instructors’ answer, where instructors collectively construct a single answer
As a general rule, remember that your goal is to implement minimax with alpha-beta pruning and to try too win the game.
If such a scenario naturally arises from a minimax agent, we will need to worry about it. As stated in one of the replies to follow-ups, for now just ignore and focus on implementing a legitimate agent that aims to win the game.
——- original reply:
We don’t need punishment, just rules. We’ll discuss this within the staff, thank you for bringing it up. Chess is really much more foolproof. Be my guest moving a knight back and forth in chess :).
Updated 21 days ago by Laurent Itti and Daniel Link
https://piazza.com/class/jzob0qt1owq15p?cid=210
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10/21/2019 CSCI 561 (139 unread)
followup discussions for lingering questions and comments
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Farzad salimi jazi 24 days ago
One solution would be disallowing backward move, but I don’t know if this is still the same game anymore!
Farzad salimi jazi 21 days ago
Daniel Link 21 days ago Please don’t bump posts. We aren’t working 24/7/365 here, sorry.
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Farzad salimi jazi 21 days ago Dear TAs,
Can you please answer to this issue, If the spoiler is allowed?
Daniel Link 21 days ago There was a weekend in between. Sorry for taking the weekend off.
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Daniel Link 21 days ago
Before this gets bumped again or something:
We are aware of this. I’ve brought this up with others and we’ll come up with a way to address this. In the meantime, just go about programming your agents and assume the issue doesn’t exist.
Farzad salimi jazi 21 days ago Sorry, I didn’t mean to bump or something sir, I just edited the post because what I said was not actually correct didn’t want to bother you, I am sorry again
Daniel Link 21 days ago I understand, no worries. It was just an empty comment, so I thought it was a bump since we’ve seen that sometimes. No need to be sorry, the misunderstanding was on my side.
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Anonymous 21 days ago
Hi professor,
But we no where in the PDF we have limitation on what kind of technique we have to use for winning, right? Can we deviate from the minimax with alpha-beta pruning at all? Can we apply some strategies along with the pruning?
Thanks
https://piazza.com/class/jzob0qt1owq15p?cid=210
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10/21/2019 CSCI 561 (139 unread)
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Daniel Link 21 days ago (Me != the professor, but still replying until he overrides). You can deviate any way you want, but please don’t count on spoiling techniques, walls or other exploits to work because we may address those by a rules update.
Anonymous 20 days ago Thank you 🙂
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This was marked a duplicate to the question/note above by Toy Leksut 14 days ago “”
Anonymous 14 days ago Is spoiling allowed in the modified version of halma?
The question said spoiling can prevent winning / losing. So if we make a rule that a player should move 1 piece in every move( like chess) , then spoiling is prevented right ?
Anonymous 14 days ago Anonymous 14 days ago Daniel Link 14 days ago
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I don’t think this is enough, the spoiling player can just move 1 piece back and forth.
But we can’t prevent moving a piece back and forth as it would eliminate some legitimate moves right ?
@210
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yujie sun 13 days ago
Any update on this issue? If we want to prevent such spoiling agents, we have to change the rules and some legal movements will not be legal anymore.
Daniel Link 13 days ago Don’t make “any update?” posts on Piazza please, they’re only adding work that benefits no one. I’ll post something about the subject of this thread later today.
https://piazza.com/class/jzob0qt1owq15p?cid=210
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